Watch This Atheist Become a Believer before Your Very Eyes

Have you seen it yet? Or again (since it first aired in December 2011)?

A heroin addict suddenly believes in god when a Secret Santa passes him a little cash. Just what a substance abuser needs, right? Cash.

CBS News did a disservice to those of us who believe and who don’t believe when they attached god to a good deed. This would have been a perfectly good example of humanism. I’ve seen this video in emails and posted on FB several times, and everyone praises god or quotes scripture.

I like people. I really do, no matter their beliefs. I don’t think these folks mean harm by pointing to god as the reason, but I do find it sad that they cannot be grateful for the good deeds of their neighbors. Instead they praise a god that, if he is responsible for the kindness of Secret Santa, is also responsible for the death of 10,000 innocent men, women and children in the Philippines.

Can we blame believers for their reaction? Like Pavlov’s dogs they learned early and often that, if you pray, you will receive some sort of response. Eventually. Maybe not the day you pray, but god will send you a sign at some point because humans are meaning-seeking creatures, and they have a propensity to find meaning when and where and as often as they can. And if god doesn’t answer prayers, they’ve learned that god’s absence is a sign, too.

God always wins. Always.

It’s also frustrating to hear people say, “I was once an atheist, but then god blessed me with ________.” And it is always some sort of perceived good fortune that recently happened. However, it seems that these folks weren’t really atheists to begin with. How do you suddenly talk yourself into believing there’s a higher power simply because you silently prayed and a stranger gave you cash the next day? This fails any test of formal logic. The two events, in reality, have no correlation.

Even worse, while Mr. Coates never explicitly identifies himself as an atheist, CBS makes his “conversion” seem like a miracle: from lowly, heroin addicted atheist to thankful, hopeful and repentant believer. They’ve portrayed nonbelievers as capricious and self-centered, ready to abandon reason and our sinful nature with the scent of money. No rationale necessary. They made us seem like one of them, like one of Pavlov’s dogs.

It would be nice if the media would not pander to believers and would just stick to the facts (like they’re supposed to do); then actions could speak for themselves. Maybe more people would just be thankful for the kindness of strangers–real people.

On a more important note, if you can help with relief efforts in the Philippines, please give what you can to the humanist relief drive. All donations are tax-deductible and will go directly toward helping.


86 responses to “Watch This Atheist Become a Believer before Your Very Eyes

  1. It was on my feed. I tried to watch it but didn’t make it to the end. I did not leave a comment.

    Speaking of stories on FB, a friend posted a link to the Atheist Mega Church story (it was a Denver news outlet but it’s also on HuffPost). Her comment was, “Yeah, uh, folks, that’s FAITH, GOD, and CHURCH you’re experiencing!!! Just saying……….”

    I left a comment on that one, LOL.

  2. It’s making the rounds in time to remind folks of “The reason for the season.”

    • …to acknowlege the longest night of the year, when the Sun (not Son) is reborn, as a reminder that even the darkest times come to an end with light, and that in everything there are cycles… and to remind people to break out the seeds and get ready to plant? Oh… wait… that was the ORIGINAL reason for the season. History, shmistory… who needs it.

    • All shock troops for the War on Xmas report to your assembly points and staging areas!

      • I have my HOLIDAY COMMERCIALISM ROCKS shirt ready to go!

        • MERRY GIFT-MAS!!

          • @LT I don’t know who started it, but I tend to use Merry Mythmas with those people who get bent out of shape over Happy Holidays. I don’t even use the word “holidays” anymore to be honest. I’ll sometimes just refer to them as celebrations or events.

            Thus, MERRY MYTHMAS!

            PS: I can’t tell you how much I look forward to your posts… except that maybe I just did.

            • @Derrick I like that “Merry Mythmas!” I bet you get some strange looks for that one!

              I also enjoy reading posts from this community; isn’t it about time you send along another? 🙂

            • @Derrick – Very nice of you to say. I enjoy all the contributions in here including yours. I forgot about this phrase. I think I might toss out a “Murky Mythmas” or two this season.


    • Costingtons Manager: Okay, people, we need to cook up a new holiday for the summer. Something with gifts, cards, assorted gougeables.

      Costingtons Woman: How about something religious? We had great penetration last spring with Christmas Two.

      Costingtons Man: Oh, I know. Spendover, like Passover, less talk, more presents.

      [Everyone starts talking at once]

      Costingtons Manager: No, no, no! No, it’s gotta be warm and fuzzy. Something like, um, “Love Day”, but not so lame.

      [cut to the Simpsons home several days later]

      Marge Simpson: Happy Love Day, everyone!

      Lisa Simpson: Come on, Mom, The stores just invented this holiday to make money.

      Homer Simpson: Lisa, don’t you ruin another Love Day.

  3. This really is quite sad. I mean, the man is a mess and I’m glad he’s getting help, and yes, if he wants to believe god sent him some money through this secret santa guy, yeah, ok. But CBS really should be ashamed of itself for this pandering.

    What about all the people who pray and whose prayers aren’t answered? Does god not love them? Does god not care about them? Do they think they do not deserve god’s love? If this man slides back into drug addiction, and I really hope he doesn’t, will he think god has abandoned him?

    It’s just so psychologically destructive.

    Best conclusion here: the secret santa embodies the generosity of the human spirit that takes action for any number of reasons, sometimes religious, sometimes not. I’m glad that his generosity (not god’s) inspired this young man to clean up his act.

    • @Deosullivan I was going to include this in the main post but changed my mind. In regards to Mr. Coates outcome: CBS didn’t do a follow-up, but I tried to see if I could find what happened to a now 32-year-old man living in Montgomery County, PA, named Thomas Coates. I suspect I found the guy who fits the description. (There was only one guy that age with that name living in the county.) If so, he’s racked up more drug and robbery crimes since his “conversion” in December 2011.

      It’s unfortunate, but it is typical of substance abusers.

      • If that is the same guy and he’s relapsed, I am truly sorry to hear it. I never wanted to think that his “conversion” was insincere or proved ultimately ineffective. I realize that many people lean on religion to get through their troubles, and if it helps, who am I to say that they should throw aside their crutch?

        Then again, the psychological impact here is of paramount importance. If he has relapsed, does he now have to deal with a crushing amount of shame? I mean, he was on national TV for chrissakes talking about how he’d been saved. This only illustrates the harm religion can do to our psyche.

        What if he simply thought, wow, there are people in the world who really care about their fellow human beings. I want to be one of them and get help. Then stumbling only becomes part of the journey and not some ego-bruising setback full of shame and self-loathing.

        Just so sad.

        • @deosullivan3 You know that I, too, think that if religion helps people, more power to them. I don’t think this story had anything to do with god, however. CBS made it that. This was a desperate, down-and-out drug addict. How sad that he was exploited.

      • And why am I not surprised CBS didn’t do a follow-up?

  4. This kind of thinking is exactly what frustrated me for years before I finally exited the belief system. The whole “It’s a mystery…” ‘explanation’ over who gets blessed by god’s benevolence and who gets the shaft is ludicrous. As deosullivan3 said, “It’s just so psychologically destructive.” And it is!!!

    Shame on CBS for this flagrant use of god for their typical final heartwarming piece of the evening. Such bullsh*t!

    OK… I’m done! 🙂

    • @Dennis. Your comment accidentally posted twice, so I deleted one.
      I thought this piece was heartwarming minus the bit about god. It’s really nice that there are people who do this–anonymously–every year.

  5. JESUS (May he be blessed forever) IN CHRISTIANITY: Second member of Triune God, Son of first part of Triune God (Son of father only, but not son of son & not son of holy spirit), and at the same time “fully” God in every respect, but died as ordinary mortal man since God cannot die, Son of Mary died and Son of first *part of Triune God (*He is “full” God himself, BUT he is not Son of himself) remained alive, but there are not two Sons, but one son and this Son is equal to father with Age & every respect in Trinity, but father is not man and God at same time like Son.
    JESUS (May he be blessed forever) IN ISLAM: A very elect and highly esteemed messenger of God with miracles. His mother was a saintly woman, gave birth to Jesus as Miracle on order (Word) of God. He is a mortal Man. No Muslim
    is a Muslim if he does not believe this.
    Al Quran: Surah/Chapter 005 – Al-Mâ’idah. Verse 75.
    The Messiah, son of Mary (Jesus), was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother (Mary) was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how we make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
    I Corinthians 14:33 says: “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,as in all churches of the saints.”
    Doctrines made by men create confusion.

    • @mushtaq_tariq

      Jesus is significant in both Christianity and Islam, the latter as a prophet like Muhammad rather than the son of god. Islam does not believe in the trinity, so it is more similar to Judaism in that aspect, and Christianity is more similar to Hinduism with their Trimurti. World religions are somewhat incestuous.

      Yes, I agree that “Doctrines made by men create confusion.”

      • Madam Deborah! I agree with you except one thing “Son of God”. It is an expired term after invention of Trinity in 4th century. Now “Son of first part of Triune God” is better term (No matter you are a Christian or Atheist) since Christians also accept that Jesus is Son of father, but not Son of Son (Grand Son of God) and not Son of Holy Spirit (Holy Spirit becomes 2nd father in Trinity, but there is one father in Trinity). So, I think, instead of “Son of God”, One must prefer term “Son of first part of Triune God”.

  6. This reminds me very much of why 12-step programs work for people. They reach for that higher power. And in that respect, truly… whatever works. If it turns their life around and they are able to stand up to their addictions… then by all means, reach for that higher power! I’ve been inside the AlAnon room plenty of times, and I’ve seen it work for non-believers as well… heard one guy say that his “higher power” was the AA room doorknob. When he allowed himself access to his higher power (i.e., turning the knob and entering the room) he was able to work through his addiction.

    I think this points to the very personal nature than faith *should* always be. The problem is, people get so wrapped up in it, and so enamoured by it, the faith itself becomes an addiction. And they just HAVE to share.

  7. Network hacks are no different than many other believers; they are so steeped in their belief that it never occurs to them others might not be. It’s the last great unaddressed discrimination in this country.

    • Those dishing out the discrimination address it constantly. They believe it’s their “God-Given Right” to dish it out. And when we say “no thank you” (I’d rather meet your “Merry Christmas” with a “Happy Holidays” or “Blessed Yule” or “Happy … whatever”), it is somehow *us* that’s disciminating against *them*… and they are very vocal about it.

    • @PiedType Absolutely and unfortunately. Then again, with majority rule, are they even going to care if they are discriminating?

  8. And this hits the hypocricy of religious thought that irks me the very most… when something good happens, it’s God’s good graces. But when something bad happens, it’s because we have somehow fallen from God’s grace (sinned, stopped praying, whatever). So, everything good = God, everything bad = personal fault, and God is punishing you on a personal level. Why would I want to worship that?!

    • @Shanan Do you remember when people were blaming the Newtown elementary school killings on the idea that we “pushed god out of the schools”? Sad….

      • Yes, that made me ill. So, God just allows children to be slaughtered because they don’t pray enough in schools? That’s a sickening thought. But not nearly as sickening as the thought that people would worship and hold on high an entity that would allow such a thing to happen just to prove a point.

  9. t is one of my more medium sized peeves that every time I give money to someone on a street corner, they say “God bless you.” …even with apparent sincerity, it makes me feel they are buying into the very system that contributes to their situation. So, yes, CBS being all “miracle” rather twists the knife for me.

    Where precisely is their omni-deity when shit hits the fan; if and when I posit the possible ever existence of deities; I am definitely in the “they tossed us a world and vacationed ON elsewhere” camp…so the continued obeisances to “god” for every bit of mediation in terrible times gives me hives.

    Watching the tragedy unfold in the Philippines and knowing it could become a much more annually common event horrifies me so much that if Jesus popped into being right in front of me I think I’d bloody his nose for his “loving father” being an absentee landlord!

    • @syrbal-labrys I think CPS should have stepped in long ago and taken “his” kids away.

      I still don’t think people here will accept climate change as the reason–until they start suffering themselves…

      • :::sigh:::: Yeah, I sadly agree with you. And of course, I am of the nasty mind-turn that makes me think such joyous professions of faith ARE merely a cynical trick to appear on “the straight and narrow” so that children do NOT get taken away. And let’s not open THAT can of venomous works….or I’ll be ranting all day. Not only on the insincerity of it, but on the crap of how it is only when it applies to the dominant religion of zombie-Jesus — anyone suddenly discovering Hellenic Reconstructionism and the joys of personal responsibility and “arete” would not be judged saved enough, would they? So yes, it offends me on legal grounds as well. Me, I might have to go Nordic Reconstructionist at some hyperbolic point —the better to justify (religiously) my desire to beat the crap out of deserving asshats.

  10. From the website: “I’m proud to serve a God who answers the prayers of atheist heroin addicts like this. If you feel the same, pass it on.”

    I think I see the first problem.

    The second is that the God they believe in appears to receive even more forgiveness than his followers … especially when you consider the number of things He lets happen on a daily basis without lifting a finger. Then, when all hope is lost, the weakest act of serendipity will draw the sheep back into the fold, no questions asked. Seriously, who wants to worship a god who spends his time urging people to hand spare change to heroin addicts while letting thousands die in the Philippines over the weekend?

    • Hi Senator. Good to hear from you again. Hope things are going well. This is a great point: “The second is that the God they believe in appears to receive even more forgiveness than his followers … especially when you consider the number of things He lets happen on a daily basis without lifting a finger.”

      We don’t exactly know WHAT the prayers of the heroin addict were. Perhaps he simply asked for a cure to his addictions? I don’t think his prayers were answered then….

  11. Debbie, you really touched on a sore spot with me. I recently found a post in my reader from a mental health counselor who said he was offering proof that there is a God. So of course I was curious to see what evidence he had. He shared a video by an eight year old pianist, Alma Deutscher.

    He gave a god all the credit, but not the parents who paid and supported her dreams, nor the teacher, nor to the little girl who spent countless hours practicing. No credit with regard to how nurture and love promotes neuroplasticity. He was well intentioned, but without realizing it, robbed humans of their immense capacity for sacrifice, generosity, and good will towards others.

    I read research not long ago which touched on this very subject. How this mentality (God is good — humans are depraved — humans can’t do good without God) undermines trust, empathy, compassion and emotional intelligence. In a nutshell — harmful for humanity, and as deosullivan3 poignantly stated — “psychologically destructive”.

    Great post!

    • Absolutely, Victoria. God receives applause for the hard work of humans. It’s not fair. That’s an interesting perspective: “How this mentality (God is good — humans are depraved — humans can’t do good without God) undermines trust, empathy, compassion and emotional intelligence.” I guess it all depends on how attached you are to your god and which religion has brainwashed you….

  12. Thanks for posting this. Saw this story on my feed last night, and it has been eating me up ever since. I didn’t know how to reply to the post without royally pissing the person off, so I kept quiet.
    What I think really bugs me is that the story SHOULD have been about the Secret Santa, but it turned into “look, god made this atheist believe! ”
    The secret santa gave out over a hundred thousand dollars per year sometimes. He never claimed that he heard anyone (god) tell him to give to the Heroine addict. He was just doing what makes him happy–helping others. He had really good timing, giving to the guy when he needed it most. But, coincidence does not equal “god”.
    Sorry, I’m rambling. But stories like these make atheist’s, agnostic’s, and others’ lives more difficult when dealing with believers. It’s hard enough being taken seriously without this drivel.

  13. Pingback: Atheism isn’t a guarantee of anything | Recovering Agnostic

  14. Great post about the way these stories are presented. There was a little bit in the middle, about these people not really being atheists, which inspired me to write about our expectations of what atheists should be like, and how they should think. It’s not intended as a criticism, just something that stirred me up to write about it. I’d be interested in your comments.

    • @Melissa Mancini Thanks for posting the link. Jeez. It seems so sad to me to love a deity who is that abusive. I wonder if they feel caught in a real-life version of the Hunger Games.

      At least more people are starting to question their assumptions about god and the logic of their beliefs.

  15. My adopted son’s birth father is a heroine addict. There is a reason why he doesn’t ask for cash and we don’t offer! Intelligent, thoughtful and responsible media coverage knows this and is (should be) obligated to be ethically accountable. Unfortunately the LCD’s of society get the default coverage because they are the audience, the majority. Go PBS and proactive critical thinking parenting (raise the roof hand motion).

    Hang in there everyone ; )
    love dayna

    • @Dayna That must be a tough situation with your son’s birth father. If I remember correctly, you still have contact with him.

      I enjoy your positive attitude, and thanks for bringing the love!

  16. Totally couldn’t agree more. It’s like thanking God for saving someone’s life instead of the doctor, thanking God for a good education instead of the teachers. It’s just a pain in the ass and so very annoying.

  17. Reblogged this on hitchens67 Atheism WOW!! Campaign and commented:
    Oh yeah…the breadline convert! Hey Jesus! Could you spare a fiver?

  18. This is one of those topics where I may not be mature enough to participate. In other words, it really honks me off.

    *** Warning, this will offend some people! ***

    I once got into an argument with an associate, not really a friend, who was waxing on and on about how god saved her friend’s son from cancer. After about ten minutes of listening to this non-stop god-praise-a-thon, I finally butted in and asked one question:

    “Did she thank god for giving the kid cancer in the first place?”

    Following a lengthy pause in which I received the most baleful of stares, she replied: “God would never do that to a child?”

    To which I answered, “Then where did the cancer come from? Didn’t god create everything?”

    This is what ticks me off about the whole “miracle from god” perspective: only the good can come from god, whereas teh bad from everywhere else. This seems a bit lopsided to me. As the creator of all… well, creation, doesn’t god bear some responsibility for calamity? This is a central problem for theists: they cannot see their deity as the downright dirty bastard it really is. The contradictions are so rife that I begin to stumble over myself in trying to point them out.

    /end rant

  19. Okay…so if there is no God, then how is it that humans are by nature “meaning-seeking” creatures?

    • @Robin Huggins How does the fact that we eat, play or seek meaning suggest that there is an invisible man in the sky who created and now orchestrates mankind?

    • You’ll first have to show that the tendency for people to find meaning somehow implies God needs to exist.

    • And first we must determine exactly what “meaning” is and how it is used in this context.

    • I’m going to be sorry for getting into this, but …

      The search for meaning has nothing to do with a god. Humans have evolved to be self-aware. Being self-aware means that humans have evolved the neuropsychological capacity to discern that they are separate from their environment and then ask, “Hmmm, so here I am. And so, how did I get here?” Nothing here has anything to do with a deity. Deities come in when humans say, “Oh crap, I have no idea why I’m here,” get scared, and then quickly say, “God must have put me here.”

      It’s not a deduction based on logic or evidence, but an inference grounded in fear. As time goes on, we learn more and more about the universe and a lot of what we used to ascribe to deities has been since explained by science–the sun, stars, storms, earthquakes, etc. In time, we will explain enough about the world that religion will no longer be necessary for humans to feel safe.

      PS More and more evidence has turned up in the last 25 years that other animals, particularly mammals, are also self-aware. So humans are not special in terms of nature, but only in terms of evolution. That’s a caveat to your “humans are by nature” phrase.

    • It’s an interesting question. I am closest to being agnostic when I am awed by the sheer beauty and complexity of the universe, usually on a micro or macro scale. I am closest to being an atheist when I am confronted by the narrow mindedness, egotistical shallowness of organized religion.

  20. Yes Madam, I am a practicing Muslim and I performed 5th pillar of Islam “Hajj” in 2012, (to complete my all 5 pillars of Islam in 2012) which has left behind golden memories and experience and I set up my blog to share my travel experience with others, using modern technology (as much as I could know), satellite views and Google Earth. These places were my dream places since my childhood that dream fulfilled with this travel.
    You have used term “Son of God”. I explained that “Son of first part of Triune God” is better term, otherwise “Son of God” will mean, besides Jesus Son of father, Jesus is ALSO Son of himself and also Son of Holy Spirit. Do you still understand “Son of God” correct or will prefer “Son of first part of Triune God” ?

  21. Thank you Madam Deborah Mitchell, for understanding my point on Son of God and also thanks for congratulations to me. I saw your website and read your About page, you are an agnostic. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively. It is for the first time in my life that I am talking with an agnostic and I find you are unprejudiced, open minded. Therefore, I am really very curious to see your remarks about secret existence of ONE God. These remarks are based on Mathematics, something which is accepted by all agnostics, theists and atheists. I shall be very much thankful to you if you could give me your view point/ few comments on this secret existence of ONE God. The comments I am pasting below.

    • @mushtaq-tariq I really more agnostic atheist, not believing in god for myself, but not wanting to force what is true for me on others. I prefer the terms naturalist or secular humanist. Oops, I just deleted that comment, thinking it was spam. Let me go retrieve it and take a look.

    The Mathematics of Christian Trinity is God+God+God=God or 1+1+1=1. It is incorrect. Now let’s see Islamic Monotheism in the light of Mathematics.
    In Holy Quran, Quran: Surah 58, verse 7 Allah says:

    “Have you not seen that Allah knows whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth? There is no secret counsel of three, but he is their fourth (with his knowledge, while he himself is over the throne, over the seventh heaven),–nor of five but he is their sixth (with his knowledge), —not of less than that or more, but he is with them (with his knowledge) whosesoever they may be; and afterwards on the day of resurrection, he will inform them of what they did. Verily, Allah is the all knower of everything.”

    From above, we can get conclusion, that there is always only one hidden present in each and every collection or number. This fact has been taught in a Mathematical Method in this verse, by giving example that with three, the fourth (one Allah) is present. And with five, the sixth (one Allah) is present. Hence from this verse, a mathematical principle is concluded:

    “In every number, and in zero, there is always one hidden present”
    21=2 (1 is in superscript, may not be shown on some web pages properly)

    Principle= In every number always 1 hidden present
    The number 1 occurs in two states (Hidden and apparent). Apparent 1 which is written apparently and from which counting starts, and the hidden 1 which is not written apparently , but remains present in every number with different properties. This secret number 1, provides evidence of secret existence of one (Allah) and his characteristics.
    Counting starts from apparent number of 1, and before this one, zero exists. Zero means, empty, finish, mortal, nothing, nobody. But if we solve zero or take an analysis of it by taking factorial, then we come to know that
    0! =1
    From where this 1 came??
    When there was nothing before this Universe, (was zero), At that time only one existence of Allah was present, and at last, when everything will be annihilated (will be zero) in Universe at end of its age, then only one personality of Allah will remain in existence. Therefore that personality is present permanently, Similarly, Allah is first and last as well. All of this is mentioned in Holy Quran.

    “Whatsoever is on it (the earth) will perish, and the face of your lord full of Majesty and honor will abide forever” (Quran Surah 55 verses26-27)

    Consider another example:

    “And indeed we have created man, and we know what his own self whispers to him. And we are nearer to him than his jugular vein (by our knowledge)”
    (Quran: Surah 50 verse 16)

    Therefore it is proved that nothing, no particle and no place is empty from existence of Allah, He is seeing and listening every where.

    “It is the same (to Him) whether any of you conceal his speech or declare it openly, whether he be hid by night or go forth freely by day.” (Quran Surah 13 verse 10)

    There always 1 exists on every number secretly, which is known in Mathematics as Power. The number upon which there is no power, (zero power), then the number also annihilates, and on the place of this number, 1 remains (as power). See A0=1 .And since this remainder 1 is itself a POWER, therefore, upon this 1; there is no need of power of any number. From this we have discovered that secret 1 doesn’t need any number, But All numbers need this secret number.

    “To him belongs, all that is in the heavens, and all that is in the earth, and he is the most high, the most Great” (Quran: Surah 42 verse 4)

    It is mentioned many times in Quran that Allah can do everything.

    To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth, and whether you disclose what is in your own selves or conceal it, Allah will call you to account for it. Then He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. And Allah is able to do all things. (Quran Surah 2 verse 284)

    In this way, only one Allah, is self sufficient i.e., he does not need any one, But all others need him. The secret 1 is the foundation of Mathematics, this number remains present in every number and every arithmetic operation constantly and secretly, never annihilates or changes. This secret 1 does not need any number; all numbers are established with the help of this number. This secret 1 is neither product nor generation of any number (Not “son” of any one), nor any number is its factor (Not “father” of any one). In the World of Mathematics, it is an incomparable, matchless and constant number, but even above restrictions of Mathematics itself. It verifies following characteristics of Allah (The God) in Surah Ikhlas, called one third Quran.

    112: 1. Say: He is Allah, the One!
    112: 2. Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
    112: 3. He begetteth not nor was begotten.
    112: 4. And there is none comparable unto Him.

    (The above mentioned 4 lines of Surah Ihlas (one third Quran) are also four line test for identification of true deity, it is key of theology. No false God or alleged divine claimer (Ancient Kings, Pharoah, Rama, Budha, blessed Jesus, Idols etc) can pass this four line test of God except true one God).
    Of course, Allah (The God), is present everywhere and every time, Absolute Master, The First and the Last, Apparent and Hidden, everlasting and eternal, unlimited, beyond the restrictions of Space and Time. Number 1 is present secretly in every number i.e. though it is not apparently written, but it is accepted as existent in every number, similarly, the One God is present everywhere every time secretly .He is invisible from the sights of our eyes, but can be viewed with knowledge and wisdom.

    Allah bears witness that none has the right to be worshipped but He, and the angels, and those having knowledge (also give this witness); (He is always) maintaining His creation in Justice, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
    (Quran Surah 3 verse 18)

    Now it is the turn of Christians to prove that Mathematics doesn’t bear witness to Islamic Monotheism?, but instead proves Christian Trinity?

    You will be glad to know that there are many places (like Pure Monotheism) where Bible and Quran support or verify each other. If we focus on them, it is a great point in removing distances between faiths of Christians and Muslims. This similarity itself has been pointed in Quran as:

    Quran: Surah/Chapter 003 – Al-Imrân. Verse 64.
    Say: O PEOPLE OF THE SCRIPTURE (People of Bible). Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah (The God), and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).

    Old Testament of Bible:
    Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD (Deuteronomy 6:4)
    Remarks: From Adam to Moses, no Prophet taught his nation to believe in Trinity (Concept of God i.e. basic requirement of salvation), but on ONE God. Either Trinity was not a basic requirement of salvation to be taught by prophets, or Christians must reject Old Testament.
    New Testament of Bible:
    “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” Mark 12:29
    Remarks: The words “our God” indicate that Jesus (May he be blessed forever) had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus (May he be blessed forever) didn’t say “your God,” he said “our God” which includes Jesus (May he be blessed forever) as the creation of God.

    Surah/Chapter 005 – Al-Mâ’idah. Verse 72-75.
    They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah (The God) is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah (The God) is the third of THREE; when there is no Allah save the ONE Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
    Remarks: If you accept that blessed Jesus and blessed Mary ate earthly food and if you accept that Jesus himself worshipped God, then you have accepted half truth in the above mentioned Quranic verses. Bible and Quran verify each other here on PURE MONOTHEISM. Trinity term and Trinity definition (Father is full and complete God, Son is full and complete God, Holy Spirit is full and complete God but these are not three gods, but one full and complete God), never spoken and heard by blessed Jesus and Prophets, but invented in 4th century is badly beaten by Mathematics as shown above.
    Unitarian Christians have identified it, these Christians have rejected Trinity, and are separated from Trinitarian Christians.

    • @mushtaq_tariq I appreciate you sharing your beliefs; however, it would not be appropriate for me to comment. I don’t believe in god(s), so much of this is irrelevant.

      Just for grins, I would like to comment on this: “Counting starts from apparent number of 1, and before this one, zero exists.” Or, you could also say that, before the number 1, there are an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1.

  23. Madam Deborah Mitchell, thank you for your remarks. You satisfied my request on secret number. You said:
    “Before the number 1, there are an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1”. Oh! you reminded me something that fascinated me in school/college times!

    I myself had been wondering on this whenever I read about irrational numbers. But I always came to conclusion that There are two things; One is theory and other is practical reality. Theory says you have to cross infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1, so two bodies should not touch. Practical reality says No, you can go from 1 to zero, distance between two bodies can be reduced from 1 to zero. And truth is, here practical reality exists, theory is just a dream.

    In later years, I learn of highly interesting Zeno’s paradoxes, these are a set of philosophical problems devised by Greek philosopher Zeno of Elea (ca. 490–430 BC) to support Parmenides’s doctrine that contrary to the evidence of one’s senses, the belief in plurality and change is mistaken, and in particular that motion is nothing but an illusion.

    Aristotle (384 BC−322 BC) remarked that as the distance decreases, the time needed to cover those distances also decreases, so that the time needed also becomes increasingly small. Aristotle also distinguished “things infinite in respect of divisibility” (such as a unit of space that can be mentally divided into ever smaller units while remaining spatially the same) from things (or distances) that are infinite in extension (“with respect to their extremities”).

    Before 212 BC, Archimedes had developed a method to derive a finite answer for the sum of infinitely many terms that get progressively smaller. (See: Geometric series, 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/64 + 1/256 + · · ·, The Quadrature of the Parabola.) Modern calculus achieves the same result, using more rigorous methods (see convergent series). These methods allow the construction of solutions based on the conditions stipulated by Zeno, i.e. the amount of time taken at each step is geometrically decreasing.

    Peter Lynds has argued that all of Zeno’s motion paradoxes are resolved by the conclusion that instants in time and instantaneous magnitudes do not physically exist. Lynds argues that an object in relative motion cannot have an instantaneous or determined relative position (for if it did, it could not be in motion), and so cannot have its motion fractionally dissected as if it does, as is assumed by the paradoxes.

    The ideas of Planck length and Planck time in modern physics place a limit on the measurement of time and space, if not on time and space themselves. Hans Reichenbach has proposed that the paradox may arise from considering space and time as separate entities. In a theory like general relativity, which presumes a single space-time continuum, the paradox may be blocked.

    • @mushtaq_tariq Impressive–your knowledge of math and physics–and the great philosophers. I’ve forgotten so much of what I’ve read over the years, but I do follow what you are saying. I like, and agree with, what you wrote here: “And truth is, here practical reality exists, theory is just a dream.”
      Are you working on or do you have your PhD in physics?

  24. Madam Deborah Mitchell, Wonderful to know that how you as read my brain about Math/PhD Doctorate? These were my old dreams, yes. I love reading and studying, including Maths, Physics, Science, History, Religions, Comparative religions, Search of God, Sitting on computer, searching Google Earth, Studying Quran etc. Yes! it was my dream to get a PhD in Physics. That dream has been becoming dead since past some time. Though I am neither working on nor I have my PhD in Physics. I think I have devoted myself to so many fields, I do, however, believe that, my personal benefits are not my original / primary goal, If I get God’s Love, then I need nothing else.
    I am also impressed from your so simple beautiful comments about Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Hinduism that you wrote here on Trinity, that Islam and Judaism are similar and Trinity binds Christianity with Hinduism. Excellent! It reminded me of my an article that I wrote several years ago proving 10 Satanic Similarities between Christian God and Hindu God. Madam Deborah Mitchell, If you mind not, may I post my that several years old article comparing Gods of Top 3 World Religions (Christianity, Islam and Hinduism) here on your blog?

    • @mushtaq_tariq It’s impressive that you took on so much learning yourself. You have a lot of interests. I always feel–there is so much to learn and so little time!

      As for your article, as long as it is informative and not disparaging to a specific religion, I’d post it. I would not want to post something that compares Satanism to Christianity. However, I would be interested in an article that compares the Gods of the three religions. If you would like me to run it as a separate post, why don’t you email your article to me at this address:

  25. Madam Deborah Mitchell, I have emailed you my article comparing Gods of Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. Title of email is “My Article of 3 Gods as talked on Word Press”. Please read email and download attachment. I am very very excitedly waiting for your comments on this article.

  26. I am always amazed by atheists who are seemingly very embittered towards God. You claim that He does not exist, so why do you dislike something that does not exist? If something does not exist, then your opinion of it is irrelevant. Correct me if I am wrong. It is quite funny how you claim that Christians are irrational and contradictory, but arguing against and even mocking something that does not exist is indeed pointless I believe…

    • Hi Anna, You are correct. One cannot be angry or bitter towards something he doesn’t believe in. Clearly, it is not “god” then but the humans and institutions that act on the behalf of the god they believe in.

    • Anna, I don’t think most atheists will argue that Christians are irrational, only that their belief in god is not rational. This much we can probably agree on: belief by its very nature requires one to abandon logic and reason and make a “leap of faith.” If you could reasonably prove the existence of god, you would not have skeptics and nonbelievers.

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