Nice Christians

This is why we have so much polarization between believers and nonbelievers. Not one person who comments regularly on this blog, believer or not, has used this kind of language. Britney, from Ashburn, Virginia, decided to insert herself into this conversation. She wants to show us how a true believer behaves. I could have deleted her comment and sent her a private email at her Hotmail address, but I thought her message to us is important.

It’s a shame that she gives her fellow Christians such a bad rap, but people like Britney need to coexist peacefully with those who don’t believe. She does not represent her fellow believers well.  I sure hope she isn’t passing along her intolerance to children….

She writes:

You ungrateful dog woman.How can you be so ungrateful to God who made you, although you are a disgusting and stupid creature, and speak against least be tankful for your existence!I’m sure you and your ugly repugnant brainless son will have a great godless future together..maybe when this idiot grows up you and him can fuck together behind your hubby’s back, you love him so much don’t you bitch, after all there is no God watching you..remember, it’s ok to curse a godless whore like you..hope you and your lover-son have a miserable life filled with terrible diseases and unimaginable suffering and that you die a nasty violent death…further that you two worms rot in HELL for eternity, bitch.May the wrath of the JUST God find you,slimy whore and remember don’t just support gay marriage, support incest too and show it by marrying & mating with your godless creature-son! And don’t forget to delete comments like these bitch, and put on only the idiotic ones…you are a nobody who deserves to die tonight! What makes you think the opinion of a nobody like you matters anyway, godless fool?


191 responses to “Nice Christians

  1. Britney is .. incredibly focused on the incest angle. To the point where I wonder if she’s dealing with uncomfortable feelings for her own son.

  2. Juan Pablo Bernal

    just imagine what this person would write if her “god” wouldn’t be watching her!!!

  3. All I can say is WOW. Maybe God can teach her correct grammar as well? I recently got in a FB conversation with some Christian believers who couldn’t explain to me how it is that THEIR God is the correct one and the God’s of other religions aren’t as important.

  4. just imagine what this lady would be writing and doing if “her god” wouldn’t be watching her “good” behaviour!

  5. Oh Awesome. Does my heart good to be reminded that evil is in man not in the scapegoat the believers call Satan. God and the Devil are different sides of the same coin, and both are created in mans image, not the other way around. People ascribe their own failings to their deities to avoid facing them in the mirror every day. The writer of this comment probably huddles, dirty and bloated in a trailer and fails to make any attempt to better herself out of laziness and then blames it on “God’s Will”. Hilarious, her “Hell” is NOW and she doesn’t see it because of her ignorance. I say leave her be, she’ll never learn and isn’t worth our efforts.

    • @CH Excellent points…It’s just really too bad that there is not space for all of us (believers and nonbelievers) here in the minds of some…

  6. Wow! She sure is doing god’s work. lol

  7. Oh.My. The hate that woman has inside of her makes me sad. All that hate eating away at her is not leaving any room for love. I’m sad for her.

  8. Juan, that’s the first thing I thought of too!

  9. There is certainly nothing I could say to such a vile letter. I am sure her God and her Jesus would be proud.

  10. Wow. Uhm….let’s see. Well, there really aren’t any words to describe what a foul display of ignorance that was. I just hope she cannot reproduce. Her children would not stand a chance. It actually makes me sad that people think like this. I feel sorry for them. What a waste of energy.

  11. Wow. She’s bringing a lot of people over to the lord, hey? It’s a shame you need to endure this drivel for expressing your opinions on your very own website.

    • It’s not personal. She’s just lashing out. I’m sure she’s afraid — she sees people falling away from religion. I do understand that, but I just think people like Britney (and there have been others who comment that I just delete) need to practice what they preach or they’ll just dig themselves deeper into a hole.

  12. LanceThruster

    If that doesn’t make ‘dam’ straighten up and fly right, I guess nothing will.


    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~ Robert E. Howard

  13. LanceThruster

    For the record, I feel sorry for her. It is not always easy to shed one’s lifelong conditioning.

  14. Wow, believing in God obviously did nothing to make her a better person.

  15. WHOA!!!!!!! What a vile, moronic rant. I hope you can deflect her hurtful words and know that they are born from her ignorance, insecurity and unfortunately, hate. How very UN-Christ-like of her…

    • No, I don’t take stuff like that personally. It is just a shame because it is this type of rhetoric that causes so many problems. On another note, ironically, I just got a notification from CNN that says: “Kevin Ware tells CNN’s Rachel Nichols that his broken leg is ‘all part of God’s plan’.” Guess even Britney’s comment was part of God’s plan…

  16. Unbelievable. So much hatred and ignorance. I’m embarrassed to call myself a Christian when I see things like this. This woman desperately needs help.

  17. Wow. Britney has big problems. How does a brain become like that?. The crap that has been poured into her head has dissolved her ability to think. I see that a lot with the over zealous christians. They have scared the bejesus out of me for sure. Don’t want any of that inside of me!

  18. maybeillbecomeafarmer

    Wow- it makes you wonder where the venom comes from.

  19. LanceThruster

    I’m sure there are some decent, intelligent people in Ashburn, Virginia…but all I can say is –

    Way to represent, girl!

  20. Thanks for posting this. It’s always good to give some quality air time to the other side, so we can remember what we’re up against.

  21. CaseyTheTyrant

    What a disgusting human being. Notice how her wording is very similar to what islamist extremists threaten Americans with?

  22. LanceThruster

    My guess is…Southern Baptist?

    Whenever I meet a more or less rational and tolerant xian, I say, “Funny…you don’t look Episcopalian.”

  23. LanceThruster

    Show us on the doll where your pastor touched you.

  24. LanceThruster

    I would make that Church of Key-riiiiist!

  25. LanceThruster

    …but what I really want to know is if she’s single.

    Call me, Britney!

  26. When can we start admitting to ourselves that belief in all-powerful beings might be a sign of an instability in the mind? There’s certainly enough evidence out there. This poor woman shouldn’t be mocked she should be given access to the best mental help we have.

    • I’m definitely not mocking her. I take her very seriously. She’s not alone. This is a symptom of a problem we have in our nation right now. Angry, polarizing people. They will infect our kids, as no doubt, they were infected by someone who was a role model to them.

  27. Nothing brings out the best in people like absolute moral certainty (and, apparently, computer access while Mom and Dad are still at work).

    Overall, I give it a 7/10. Opening with “ungrateful dog woman” was a nice attention-getter, but I have to take points off for grammar and the nagging feeling that she’s given that whole description of your “immorality” waaaay too much thought.

    • She got the dog reference from me, no doubt. It was my (very) lame attempt at being humorous. (Told you guys I’m not.) If you look over to the right, you’ll see a tweet that says “He was dyslexic. What he really meant was, “My dog, my dog why have you forsaken me?”

      Will you take off points for that?

  28. LanceThruster

    @mthoza – Yes and no. Sometimes the healing process starts with a little ridicule (apply as needed) to help them realize that not everyone wears the blinders that they themselves cling to.

    I am the person I am today because along the way there were concerned and caring individuals who advised me to pull my head out!

  29. LanceThruster

    I like how in the cartoon “Adventure Time,” they regularly exclaim, “Oh my Glob!”

  30. I’d love to have a conversation with Britney! She’s pretty scared about something.

  31. LanceThruster

    What a worldview!

    Let us praise God. O Lord,…
    O Lord,…
    …ooh, You are so big,…
    …ooh, You are so big,…
    …so absolutely huge.
    …so absolutely huge.

    Gosh, we’re all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
    Gosh, we’re all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
    Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and…
    And barefaced flattery.
    But You are so strong and, well, just so super.

    PRAYER. It’s the *least* you can do. ~ LT

  32. LanceThruster

    I’m beginning to think that she’s not coming back with cogent rebuttals to our queries.


  33. LanceThruster

    I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing
    on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop!
    don’t do it!”
    “Why shouldn’t I?” he said.
    I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!”
    He said, “Like what?”
    I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?”
    He said, “Religious.”
    I said, “Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?”
    He said,”Christian.”
    I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?”
    He said, “Protestant.”
    I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?”
    He said, “Baptist!”
    I said,”Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or
    baptist church of the lord?”
    He said, “Baptist church of god!”
    I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god,
    or are you reformed baptist church of god?”
    He said,”Reformed Baptist church of god!”
    I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god,
    reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god,
    reformation of 1915?”
    He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!”
    I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.

  34. I guess she missed the love thy neighbor part of being a good Christian. How sad for her and her family to know and teach such hate.

  35. Christians who believe that one will commit all sorts of evil when one does not believe in their god, is simply so stupid that they really do not deserve an answer. Such christians should only be demanded to come up with scientific, durable proof of their so called god, in terms of that they have to present this so called god himself, before next time they try to express themselves in any way. That should keep them occupied for the rest of their life…

  36. Yeah, folks like Britney usually post once and disappear. She must of had a bad easter egg for lunch.

  37. LanceThruster

    The lesson is: Our God is vengeful! O spiteful one, show me who to smite and they shall be smoten! –Homer Simpson

  38. @dam….the following link is to christianity today, whom Britney so boldly hid behind when she posted her comments. It allows a user to share their story of how the Ministry of Christianity Today has mattered to ‘you.’ After looking at this site, it is not geared in the direction that Britney steers towards. I think her comments should be forwarded to this organization. They may be able to remove her from posting under this organization.

    • @erykf Yes, I saw that it linked to that site and checked it out. My guess is she must do this a lot. She might even be a he. I have her e-mail, and that could be any old e-mail, but her IP address is not fake….

  39. I used to work for a well-known civil liberties organization. We got rants like this one in the mail on a regular basis. Especially in christmas cards. We displayed them right along with the sincere holiday greetings because people found them amusing.

    I chalk it up to mental illness.

  40. Hi Deborah,

    I’ve been a member of your blog here since January 16th, the day after your article was published on CNN. I’ve read all of your posts, including today’s. I’d like to share an introduction and then offer a comment about Britney’s awful letter.

    I was an atheist. At a certain point I began to perceive that there is more to this world than what we can see/touch/hear with our physical senses — that there’s some kind of underlying spiritual realm. And of course, that provoked a lot of personal questions, such as “Why am I here?”, “What is the causality force behind all of this?”, and “What is my spiritual destiny, my future beyond this short Earthly life?” I began a sincere search for “The Truth.” After many years of diligent pursuit and inquiry, several extraordinary things occurred which lead me to believe in Jesus. As I read the New Testament for the very first time, I found that the God who I was reading about was the very same God who was revealing himself in my life. That was 36 years ago. Throughout all this time, among many many things learned, I feel that the most important thing I’ve learned about God is that he wants us to have a real and experiential relationship with him. He’s given us the option to choose, he does not force himself upon us. My experience with him is that he’s extremely sweet, gracious and patient. To echo a passage from the New Testament, I love him because he first loved me. This is first and foremost. And as you know, Jesus stated that the second most important thing is to love our neighbor as our self. In my view, this means seeking to have understanding of others, especially if they have a different point of view. It means being sweet, gracious and patient towards others. And I feel it means that we should look for the things we have in common with those who may be different than us, rather than build walls or act unfriendly.

    So my comment about Britney’s letter today is…Ugh. In contrast to your comment, “She wants to show us how a true believer behaves,” I feel that it’s actually doubtful that she is a Christian. It’s not my intention nor my place to judge anyone (only God really knows what’s in our hearts), but that behavior is not representative of real Christians nor of what Jesus taught and showed us.

    If it’s okay with you all, I’ll try to participate in your topics and discussions a bit more often. I think it’s good to have objective and even-handed talks about important issues. Even if we don’t always agree, it’s valuable to talk and hear other thoughtful points of view. 🙂

    Take care,

    • @Steven Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. As you know, I’m not a believer, but I do think it’s good to talk, and you’ve probably figured out, civil discussion, no matter your beliefs are welcome here.

  41. She got the dog reference from me, no doubt.


    Minus one point. 6/10. Seriously, she needs to get her own material and focus on sex a whole lot less.

  42. Are you sure that wasn’t written by someone from The Onion? That is so far “out there,” it seems like a put-on.

    I can’t get past that the person that wrote that is capable of using a computer. Maybe she dictated it to her own demon-spawn to type in.

    • @bluzdude I’m not sure about that, but wouldn’t it be a waste to write that here? Besides, s/he said that I probably would delete the comment. Makes me think s/he’s been through this before. Maybe the comment was generated by a computer or a couple of apes on a typewriter.

  43. I don’t think her comments speak to her religious affiliation or spirituality – I think it speaks to her character. There are crappy people everywhere. Being a believer or non-believer will not take the crappy out of a crappy person.

  44. For the record, I’m more of a “cat person” myself. I’ve never been fond of the word hubby, and the swipe at Deborah’s child seems a bit…shall we say, uncharitable. Other than that, Britney swooped in kicking ass and taking names.

    I guess my arms *are* too short to box with her God’s.

    • Haha LanceT…But it’s not personal for you or me or my kids or my “hubby.” Just a rage against nonbelievers. I suspect it’s not really a woman who wrote that…

  45. Britney is the greatest troll in the entire history of the interwebs!

  46. Do you think that maybe that’s just how Pope Francis blows off a little steam?

  47. What a nasty bitch! I would not usually use such language, but after Britney’s comment I feel absolutely angelic in doing so. What a horrible tool she is!

  48. I am a common atheist, and just because we don’t believe in the existence of god, doesn’t mean we hate him, christians have a right to religion and I respect that. Britney you are way too harsh, how would you like it if I tried to make you an atheist by insulting you? By the way, I wish people would stop threatening us with hell, Atheists don’t even believe such a place exists. Peace -Charles ^^

  49. Oh yes, I can see the Holy Spirit flowing through her. And atheists are the least trusted group in society?

  50. I haven’t read what she is responding to, but I can say for certain that this person definitely does not speak for me or any other Christians I know. Even if the person she is responding to has expressed atheism or anything akin to it (for which reason all of us who call ourselves would have an obligation to pray for that person), this kind of vitriole is not what Christ taught us to do, and the language she uses certainly doesn’t commend her. I cannot judge her, but this type of fruit doesn’t bear witness of her professed faithan and she needs our prayers as well. God will ultimately judge everyone. In the meantime, we who are His children are to pray for and try to reach as many as we can with the Good News of Jesus Christ. Brittany’s response does neither. I wonder how many people will be kept out of heaven because of her negative witness.

  51. Oh my. I have nothing logical to say to that. Wow.

  52. She is clearly insane.

  53. I don’t think you should have published her comment. I also do not think you should respond to her in any way. The woman is clearly off her rocker. The thing is (and I am an atheist by the way) I am sick of people arguing the existence of a literal God based on how believers and non-believers act. I think Bill Mahr movie Religulous was insulting and stupid. I loved the book Living Biblically. Maybe Hitler was an atheist. Maybe he was not. Like a very much believing friend I know said, “Hitler also probably thought the sun rose in the East.” If you agree with Hitler that the sun rises in the east, it doesn’t make you a bad person (but if you buy into the whole genocide thing it does).

    • @noel I’m not familiar with the book Living Biblically. I will read up on it. I did not find Religulous to be insulting or stupid, but I watched it years ago when it first came out and cannot do justice in speaking about it now.

      I think I (we) should occasionally respond to people who are particularly vitriolic. I think it’s letting people off the hook when we just say they’re crazy. There is a wide range of human behavior. I want this person to know that I’m not a threat to him/her. I don’t want to take away religion, I just want nonbelievers to be able to express themselves, too. (And, of course, I don’t want religion in our gov’t or schools, but that is a process, too.)

  54. It’s amazing the amount of ignorance and intolerance there is out there. I doubt this person would ever speak to anyone like this face to face. I was just making a comparison the other day to how similarly atheists and gays are portrayed so negatively and so wrongly: All atheists worship the devil and all gays are child molesters. I don’t think anything could be further from the truth, yet it’s the perception of many, I’m sure. I guess it makes it easier to justify spewing such hatred. Sadly, opening up in a blog format, you probably see a lot of this (maybe not quite that bad) behavior based on ignorance.

  55. I can’t read that post without hearing the Church Lady in my head saying, “Well! Isn’t that special!”

  56. This has to one of the weirdest comments I’ve ever read. I guess I just don’t understand where she is getting all this incest stuff from. Fine, she’s nuts and needs to take a few courses in writing but some of the stuff is just off the charts crazy. What was she responding to exactly? When I come across comments on the internet like this, it makes me wonder if someone is just playing a very sick joke because it’s just so hard to believe that anyone can be that ignorant and cruel.

  57. Seriously, that entire comment just made me sick and it made me realize why I continue to believe that religion simply distorts people and makes them crazy. What she said made absolutely no sense. As if only believing in God would prevent a person from committing incest… Makes you wonder what she would do if she didn’t have God on her side. Thanks for confirming what I already knew was out there.

  58. dam, this is off topic, but I wanted to get your take on this… today a friend of mine posted how her faith was renewed when her three year old had her pray for the cable to work (the storms had wreaked havoc on it) so he could watch his cartoons. She didn’t want to pray at first because she didn’t want him to question his faith when it didn’t work, but then she realized that God hears even the little prayers. And guess what, it worked within minutes of her praying. Jesus Christ Cable Guy, I guess. My immediate comment when she stated that was why would he listen to her prayers to repair her cable for her little boy, but he won’t listen to the mother praying that her child does not die of cancer? How do believers rationalize that in their minds? Or is it not for us to know? Either way, I just thought you might find that as ironic as I did.

    • @Isabel. Sad. What kind of message do we send kids teaching them stuff like that? Even if God were real, imagine asking for such a petty thing.

      God works in mysterious ways: if we get what we pray for, we are blessed. If we don’t get what we pray for, God had different plans for us. I.E. God wanted another angel (in the case of a dying child). God wins either way… But, you know, if she were able to see these things, would she still be Christian?

  59. Well, I have to admit that this made me crack up a bit. I get it that something is obviously a little off, but I think Mrs. Jesus should probably check out her Bible. She seems to think that incest is a huge insult, but I’m pretty sure that if we believe that Adam & Eve populated the world, their kids had to breed with someone (which would be pretty difficult considering they had 3 boys…well, until 700 or 800 years later when Cain then was able to marry his sister. And I thought the 65 year old New York woman was an old mother…). So, the Bible says incest works…I’d like to see that in action. Actually, no, I take that back…

    And in a more positive note, at least she was comparing gay marriage to incest. I feel like this is a big step because usually we get compared to beastiality, so hooray for us finally moving up the animal kingdom to related humans! ha ha

    I’m super curious to see what her Facebook page looks like. I haven’t noticed anyone posting “godless whore” posters or anything, but I’m sure she must have a few. LMFAO

  60. I think I’ll order a pair of these atheist shoes:
    and give such christians a tip in the ass!

  61. @metron. AWESOME!

    @dam, I’m glad you posted this. It’s hard to read, but that’s exactly why we should be reading it and having discussions about it. For the Christians on here, I wonder how many are trying to change our minds? Sure, let’s have that open discussion, but I can’t get over the feeling that someone’s trying to “turn” me.

  62. I have actually been a little in awe up to this point that the discussions in the comments sections that follow your posts stay so civilized! I get whack jobs like this hurling vile insults at me almost every time I post anything on my blog discussing my non-belief.

    But yeah. Britney. Sheesh.

  63. The vile is surely strong in this one.
    No matter how hard the religious tolerants try to whitewash, Britney is sincere in her beliefs and xianity accommodates that kind of thinking easily.

    As someone posted earlier, it is good that Britney has her dog…God if that keeps her even a little in check.

    I know that the majority of religious find Britney obnoxious but OTOH she highlights quite beautifully the results of quite recent studies; the unbelievers are in general more empathetic and intelligent than the pious.

    @Lance: Great quotes and bits of humour – once again.

  64. I once had a fifth grade teacher who used to say to all of us self centered snot pickers that “You get more flies with Honey”. I think that is the thing ALL of us should consider. What she said and more so how she said it is unconscionable. However, are we really all that surprised when we write things like…

    mthoza | April 3, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
    belief in all-powerful beings might be a sign of an instability in the mind

    LanceThruster | April 3, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    Sometimes the healing process starts with a little ridicule

    dam | April 3, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
    “My dog, my dog why have you forsaken me?”

    Senator Jason | April 3, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
    Seriously, she needs to get her own material and focus on sex a whole lot less.

    bluzdude | April 3, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
    Maybe she dictated it to her own demon-spawn to type in.

    dam | April 3, 2013 at 10:22 pm |
    Maybe the comment was generated by a computer or a couple of apes on a typewriter.

    LanceThruster | April 3, 2013 at 10:51 pm |
    Britney is the greatest troll in the entire history of the interwebs!

    LanceThruster | April 3, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    Do you think that maybe that’s just how Pope Francis blows off a little steam?

    Tanya | April 3, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    What a nasty bitch!

    Anonymous | April 3, 2013 at 11:29 pm |
    She is clearly insane.

    metron | April 4, 2013 at 3:13 am |
    I think I’ll order a pair of these atheist shoes:
    and give such christians a tip in the ass!

    And not from this blog but, “Ridicule religion with contempt” -Richard Dawkins.

    It’s this type of un-healthy and disrespectful discourse that leads people like Britney to act the way they do. I think we could all use a modicum of restraint when we comment online.

    • Oh, no, Joe, you didn’t….Restraint is having one or two drinks instead of 10…or as in “Britney’s” case, 20 or 30.

      This line of logic is sort of like saying, well you guys get what you deserve for your remarks against the other side. It’s akin to, “Sorry, but you asked for it.” Some of these comments you mention were humor that, I believe, was an attempt to mitigate the impact of such nastiness. Others, were a much toned-down reaction. I don’t think anyone who has commented here–including you–has been disrespectful. You come here knowing what the subject matter is about. No one has attacked you.

      I do get comments like this on occasion, and the reason I chose to run this is that it’s representative of the anger and hostility you get for speaking up. It’s one thing for us all to comment here where the subject matter is debating religion and its effects on society and our kids, quite another to seek out and write such vile remarks. Again, personal attacks are a symptom of the anger and fear that person feels. But it’s people like that who have the capacity to do really bad things–like blow up buildings in the name of god.

      People vomit in their homes all the time, but they don’t run next door to spew their illness all over their neighbor’s porch. Keep it at home, on your own blog, amongst friends. Better yet, see a doctor. But lashing out, calling someone you’ve never even met all those lovely names simply because you don’t like what that person is saying is wrong, don’t you think?

  65. Wow, I am SPEECHLESS. How sad for her. How can someone be so full of hate? What a hypocrite she is. I wonder what her church would think of her? I am non-believed, but I was raised in the Catholic church, I couldn’t imagine anyone who believed in Christianity could be that hateful and pathetic.Good for you for calling her out!

  66. Joe, apples and…hippopotamus.

    You are not serious when you defend her or at least try to justify her and her ilk with the comments you quoted? It one thing to question someone’s mental stability after such a rant and another to claim that we heathens somehow have brought that upon ourselves.

    It is exactly as if you were defending a rapist by claiming that because the raped was not wearing a burqa she kinda brought the hideous act upon herself.

  67. Either the comment is someone’s sick humor or this person is hurting beyond what most of us will ever understand. If she really is like this, I would say she has suffered great abuse and may still be in an abusive situation. I know we hear it all the time…..”hurt people hurt people”. Maybe another thing to consider is she’s starting to lose her own personal belief system, and it scares her so she is becoming more stubborn than ever to hold onto all that she’s ever known.

    It’s one thing to insult someone, another to call them names, yet, even more of a downfall to do either to their child(ren), but this person went beyond ALL those things. To throw the word “incest” around like that about you and your son is more hurtful than her hate.

    Deborah, I know you often tell us that you’re not bothered by such rants, but this one is so extreme. I hope that you and your family are all healthy, safe, and have some sort of support where you live. I am really sorry that this happened to you.

    • @Chope You’re very empathetic, and you may very well be correct that she is hurting. I just hope she knows that expressing pain like that is not acceptable nor responsible. Being anonymous makes people feel like they can have license to do and say as they wish, but we are all representing the human race…

      I really appreciate your kind words, Chope. I am concerned about extreme people committing acts of violence, but when people lash out like this, I just figure they are angry and/or fearful.

  68. It is comments like these that really make me fear for the safety of my son. I know that may seem silly – but he is 2 and half now and we have started talking about schools and such. These comments really resonate with my biggest concern sending him to some of our public schools in Cincinnati. I have gotten these types of volatile responses just in public discussing being an atheist (passively and openly…). I worry even more for my son. Stones in the playground? Teachers screaming at him? How do you cope with this? How do you trust when there are such violently angry and hateful people?


    • @Chelsea I think this person does represent a small minority of people who can be very vocal and pushy. The things your son will face will be much more subtle. My oldest is now a senior, and I asked what advice he would give (we live in Texas now). He said that he just doesn’t bring religion up at school. He doesn’t get confrontational, and if he is asked to pray, he just says “no thanks.” No one should be talking about their personal religious views at school, he says. When he was younger (I know I’ve told this story before), he did have one teacher who asked the class where they went to church, and when my son said we didn’t go, she asked the class if someone wanted to come to our house and take him to church on Sunday. I talked with the principal about that, and the teacher wasn’t so forward after that, but of course, you don’t know what goes on in the classroom. For us, it wasn’t so much that they signalled out my kids for not believing, but they just talked about god and the devil a lot. That’s what you have to prepare your kids for–the fact that some people bring their religion “stories” to school with them. But they are just stories, so your son can just consider them fiction like any other…For a while, my younger son felt pressured to fit in, so he would tell people he was Baptist or Catholic. Sad, I know. But these are the times we live in.

  69. That’s pretty sad (and really bizarre). I’m a non-believer, but I know lots of wonderful believers (some who are Christians, some who aren’t).

    • @afleetingrunner I do, too. Most I know are not like this, but the few that are ruin it for everyone else–not just here in on-line forums, but in schools, gov’t, etc, too.

  70. Symptoms of the same disease. Christians think they have the cure for the disease their own god created. This is an extreme example, but I find the more subtle examples more troubling. I find that Christians can hardly resist talking down to others, even if they don’t mean it in a mean-sprited way like Brittany. They make truth-claims about things they couldn’t possibly know, and boy, do they love to tell you how much they are praying for you. They really do feel “blessed”, better than you because they are blessed, etc. Humility is one of those Jesus-commandments they just ignore. They have no inkling, it seems, how childish they are.

  71. I know how to damn Britney’s soul to hell but she’s not worth the effort.

  72. I think what bothers me the most about Britney’s illogical tirade is her attack on your kid. If she wants to spew rhetoric and venom at an adult, fine. Even if it’s 50 Shades of Cray, she has every right to her opinion and to verbally vomit all over the internet if she wishes. But to call a kid names and then to start bringing incest into the rant…wow. It seems to me, she’s got some horrid issues in her past that she probably never really dealt with. She just “turned to God” for help. Which is often my problem with religion…it doesn’t really deal with problems as much as it wraps them up in a pretty packages of eternal life and salvation. Humans don’t have to “deal” with any of their issues. They just have to pray. And that might make them feel better in that moment, but it obviously doesn’t help the deep-seated issues.

    Her response actually makes me feel rather sad.

  73. LanceThruster

    @Joe K – I’m still waiting for substantiation on your allegations against Ingersoll.

    Religionists have long pleaded for “special protection” for their irrationalism (don’t denegrate or God or belief). Well as far as I’m concerned, blasphemy is a victimless crime. The God of Britney, whose hellfire she has called down on Deborah and her child, would clearly be seen as a ‘daffy twat’ if that was how this deity operated. Does that make Britney one as well? Thankfully people are free to decide for themselves.

    If you want to get into who started it, don’t forget that the church used to torture and murder people for a lot less. If I expressed similar heresies in other parts of the world in front of people with power to impose their sectarian blindness, the same thing would happen. By my reckoning, those people are r-tards and help perpetuate ignorance on a global scale (largely tax free to boot). That is clearly worthy of ridicule.

  74. LanceThruster

    “Atheism, adopted by a thoughtful and sensitive person, leads to a spirit of self-reliance, to a self-respect which demands that we comfort and help those who need such support, and to a furthering and supporting of all measures which will reduce or moderate the blows of fate.” -HJ McCloskey


    There is nothing in that notion that says we can’t, with loving concern and compassion, point out to someone and say, “That’s one of the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard!” when appropriate.


    Nothing fails like prayer. ~ LT

  75. @dam: I would not be as gracious as you when you say that Britney is a member of a tiny minority. All one has to do is torture for a while reading the comments at

    I do know that those wackos are not representative to the US but they are plenty, they are religious and they are…like Britney.

  76. LanceThruster

    As a contrast, my co-worker just learned her cousin died the other day of a massive heart attack (age 49) while playing racquetball. She is now quoting me various gems from Facebook about God having everything happen for a reason. Do I challenge her on what I consider spurious logic and wishful thinking? Of course not. I comfort her as one human being does for another in the ways I know how. People are free to seek the salves that they find comforting for themselves. I am free to live facing reality on its own terms, but don’t use that choice as an excuse to browbeat others against their will (though I welcome any and all discussions of anything under the sun).

    As others have observed, it does not appear that what Britney is seeking is any sort of discussion.

    • I’m just now getting to my messages and wanted to comment on a few things. @LanceT About your co-worker, I take the same approach as you do on comforting the religious. But I’m not going to say that I’m praying for you. That’s just wrong for both parties. I just don’t say anything or I say other, nonreligious things. On the other hand, I wish they wouldn’t make their God comments with me because I find them so trite. Yet I know, too, that that is the only way they know, that is what brings them comfort, and they assume brings me the same. And, I love this: If your God hates the same things you do, it’s probably not real. I also like that quote I thought was Gandhi. (That’s been quoted a lot like that.) I guess what we should all be saying is just, let’s evolve…for the better.

      @mtprairiegirl “Reminds also of something that would be said from the Westboro Baptist people.” I just remembered that the pastor left me some comments in the past. You’re probably right–it could be someone from that church, but definitely seems male (sorry guys). Maybe the commenter has a daughter named Brit. Who knows. I agree with your comments about LanceT. Nice to have someone with a sense of humor!

      @Rachael Yeah, scary. Makes you double-check your doors to see if they’re locked.

      @Steven My apologies to you because you seem like a kind person. You know when you’ve had really bad service and you call a company to complain, and the first person who answers really gets it? You know they are not the problem, but you have to complain to them because they are taking the call. You’re getting that call as resident Christian. I do hear you, and I think we all agree–there are good and bad believers and nonbelievers. Thanks for your input.

  77. mtprairiegirl

    @dam…..I believe you’re right on guessing this person is male. I know women can talk trash, but some of the comments that were made to me seemed very much against the female gender. Probably had an abusive mother…..who know’s, but as I was reading it I was also visualizing a male (sorry guys) in a dark room of a basement with religious paraphenalia pasted all over the walls ranting out load as he typed this comment to you. Reminds also of something that would be said from the Westboro Baptist people.

    After reading “Britney’s” comment I also know non-believers can get rather potty-mouthed at times, which doesn’t represent us very well much like her/his comments don’t represent the religious very well. Then I read Joe K’s comment and couldn’t believe he was making the comparison between some of the comments that have been made so far, which were humorous for the most part and Britney’s who were purely filthy and nasty. As saab93f stated……. apples and..hippopotamus’

    @LanceT……it’s great having you on here to enlighten us with your humor 😉

  78. @Joe K – Britney made it clear from the start that she has no desire to engage in civilized discourse. If she had declared herself as a Christian and brought up rational and courteous objections to something Deborah (or others) had said, then we would clearly be out of line for responding the way we did.

    Read Britney’s comment again. Focus specifically on her disturbing details describing how the author of this blog engage in sexual activity with her son and die a horrible death, and tell me which part of it – or any comment of similar nature – deserves anything but ridicule.

    I stand by my comments. Her sexually explicit response, in all sincerity, is indicative of a serious underlying problem. She acted the way she did because she thought her ideology was being insulted. Our responses to it do not in any way provide justification for such invectives being hurled at us in the first place.

    • Like I shared yesterday, I don’t think “Britney” is a Christian at all. Don’t be duped into thinking that she represents any true believers — she does not. I agree with Senator Jason, she has a serious underlying problem. Actually, her post is so over-the-top vile and offensive, I wonder if the whole thing may have been manufactured — just to illicit a big multi-day reaction here. I’d say it’s time to move forward. Next topic. 🙂

  79. LanceThruster

    I do not mind being threatened by anyone’s God. What frightens me is when they act as God’s proxies to do what they imagine their God wants. I guess they do not believe their God can handle it on its own.

  80. LanceThruster

    If your God hates the same things you do, it’s probably not real.

  81. LanceThruster

    @Steven – What metrics could you pssibly use to determine who is and is not a ‘real’ Christian?

  82. LanceThruster

    While perpetuating sexist and mysoginist language is definitely to be frowned upon, I have to admit that I would laugh at SNL’s Weekend Update when Dan Akroyd would exasperatedly exclaim, “Jane, you ignorant slut!”

    Context is everything.

  83. @Lance – My post yesterday and today are primarily in response to, “She wants to show us how a true believer behaves.” I feel that it’s very doubtful that “Britney” is a believer. Her behavior is not representative of real Christians nor of what Jesus taught and showed us. Jesus stated that the second most important thing is to love our neighbor as our self. In my view, this means seeking to have understanding of others, especially if they have a different point of view. It means being sweet, gracious and patient towards others. And I feel it means that we should look for the things we have in common with those who may be different than us, rather than build walls or act unfriendly. Perhaps the most “objective” statement would be this: Britney does not represent Jesus. And as I mentioned, that post might have been manufactured just for the purpose of illiciting a big multi-day reaction here.

  84. @Steven: Please do read the comments at and then return with your doubts. Good xians spew so much hate that it just beckons belief. For starters…

  85. LanceThruster

    @Steven – you said My post yesterday and today are primarily in response to, “She wants to show us how a true believer behaves.”

    I might have said “somewhat typical” believer as I have found a lot of them to be some of the most selfish, self-centered, narrow-minded, spiteful, and un-Christ-like people I have known. It obviously doesn’t apply to all across the board and I have warm relationships with many wonderful xians.

    I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

    ~ Mahatma Gandhi


  86. Wow …. I’m …. speechless. I have never seen a comment quite so unchristian like. I can only say … Wow. I really hope she isn’t breeding her version and brand of Christianity into a new generation of children. I am not even sure the point behind her comment except to berate you. Just … wow… I have seen some hate filled Christian comments before, but NOTHING quite like this. This is so un-christlike it’s unreal. Holy Crap. I just can’t … I’m just so astounded.

  87. LanceThruster

    The Britney as “troll” comment was meant to give ‘her’ the benefit of the doubt as it’s hard to imagine anyone could actually be that hateful and clueless. As to someone planting that comment merely as an excuse to bash xians (who run the gamut from Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist to Bishop Jonh Spong) the people in here are thoughtful, intelligent, and interesting enough on their own to ne shills to spark a discussion.

  88. LanceThruster

    The previous comment should read “interesting enough on their own not to need shills to spark a discussion.

  89. @saab93f – I’ve never seen that site before now. I read the article you referenced. I think it’s horrible what that poor girl is being subjected to. The writer of that ugly letter does not claim to be a Christian. As far as I’m concerned, true believers simply do not spew hate nor behave like Britney. So my main point is simply this: don’t generalize nor equate those awful people with sincere followers of Jesus.

  90. LanceThruster

    Here is what I see representing the character of most the people in here —

    Be the change you wish to see in the world. ~ not-Ghandi

    I think it’s infinitely useless to try to make a determination of who is a “true” xian as such futile exercises have caused untold bloodshed throughout the history of mankind.

    Your various gods will sort it out should they actually have the opportunity. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Who the hell knows.

    No offence Apu, but when they were handing out religions, you musta been out taking a whizz — Homer Simpson, to store proprietor and Hindu, Apu Nahaasapeemapetilon

  91. LanceThruster

    Homer Simpson – greatest theologian evah!

  92. LanceThruster


    Henry Hill: You’re a pistol, you’re really funny. You’re really funny.

    Tommy DeVito: What do you mean I’m funny?

    Henry Hill: It’s funny, you know. It’s a good story, it’s funny, you’re a funny guy.


    Tommy DeVito: What do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What?

    Henry Hill: It’s just, you know. You’re just funny, it’s… funny, the way you tell the story and everything.

    Tommy DeVito: [it becomes quiet] Funny how? What’s funny about it?

    Anthony Stabile: Tommy no, You got it all wrong.

    Tommy DeVito: Oh, oh, Anthony. He’s a big boy, he knows what he said. What did ya say? Funny how?

    Henry Hill: Jus…

    Tommy DeVito: What?

    Henry Hill: Just… ya know… you’re funny.

    Tommy DeVito: You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it’s me, I’m a little fucked up maybe, but I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I’m here to fuckin’ amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

    Henry Hill: Just… you know, how you tell the story, what?

    Tommy DeVito: No, no, I don’t know, you said it. How do I know? You said I’m funny. How the fuck am I funny, what the fuck is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what’s funny!

    Henry Hill: [long pause] Get the fuck out of here, Tommy!

    Tommy DeVito: [everyone laughs] Ya motherfucker! I almost had him, I almost had him. Ya stuttering prick ya. Frankie, was he shaking? I wonder about you sometimes, Henry. You may fold under questioning.


    • @LanceT Ya know, that’s kinda how I talk, but I’m not funny. (Just funny-looking, or I look at things funny.) Is Tommy related to Danny?

      Looks like we’ve all found our characters. It is funny, though, how people bring out different things in each other…We all have such an impact; we don’t even realize it…

  93. LanceThruster

    The movie “Goodfellas” has always scared me (where I got the Joe Pesci – Tommy quotes from) because there actually are people that sociopathic in the world.

    It’s the first thought I have when someone mentions they think I’m funny (which I do take as quite a nice compliment, btw).

    …funny like I’m a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh[…]?


  94. LanceThruster

    Well, as rock god Ian Hunter observed, “You’re never alone with a schizophrenic.”

  95. I love humanity. It’s people I can’t stand.

  96. @ Joe K. Who wants flies?

  97. LanceThruster

    Wow. Online or OnDemand, make sure you watch Stephen Colbert’s interview (4/3) with AC Grayling who wrote “The God Argument – The Case Against Religionism and for Humanism.” Simply masterful exchange and fun to watch.

    • @LanceT I’ll see if I can find it. I like both Colbert and Stewart, but I don’t watch much TV. I bet it’s on-line, too.

      @mtprairiegirl I started watching Zeitgeist last night. I had actually learned about most of those gods in an ancient history class. I remember the professor also told us that the kings of that time (Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians) used to co-opt the power of the gods. These god-kings/rulers kept their subjects in-line through this authority–the god-kings were responsible for the law, for the rain, for the things that happened to the people. It was believed that the king, when he died, would go to an after world. For this reason, his family, household staff and animals would be killed and buried with them so that they could go with him, too. (That last image always stuck with me.)

      I fell asleep in the middle of the part about 911 being one big conspiracy. I’ll finish watching this weekend.

      I love the visually clean way all the gods were presented in the beginning, and I’m going to have my boys watch this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion!

  98. LanceThruster

    @Steve – As far as what a (true?/typical?/devout?) xian believes and how followers of the teachings of Christ behave…how do you explain (or do you feel they have the “Truth”) those whose worship is limited to “Republican Jesus?”

  99. LanceThruster

    Also watch a clip called “Kid President” which is a young (3rd grade) AA student president in the oval office with the CinC. Simply heartwarming. I saw it on MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell’s show.

  100. LanceThruster

    @dam – Your writing tickles and entertains me so you never have to discount your sense of humor in the least. An appreciation of any wit is what allows you to tune into the shorthand of higher wit. Look at how much of all our exchanges are just snippets of references that are understood.

    Just by your presence you’ve created a safe haven for many; a wonderfully welcoming community…and a magnet for interesting…ummm. case studies.


    • @LanceT Well, thank you. That’s really nice of you to say.

      I’m really in awe of the things people bring to the conversation–information, insights, humor, personal accounts.

      The latest “case study’ is the most severe symptom of xtianity. Yet the words that come to mind are, “forgive them; for they know not what they do.”

  101. LanceThruster

    @ Jason M. Wester, who said Christians think they have the cure for the disease their own god created.

    Well put.

  102. @Steven: If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck…
    What reason would anyone but xian have in objecting the upholding of the 2nd amendment by removing a xian mural? The unbelievers are the least trusted minority in the US – even less so than rapists!!! Whose opinion does that reflect – could it be the majority´s???

  103. Wow, that is insanity! It’s a very bad representation of Christianity and proves that she has no real faith, because if she did, she wouldn’t be saying this. Her words are pure evil and hatred. I’m sorry that someone would send this to you.

  104. @dam Another ‘entertaining’ post and thank you for highlighting the hypocrisy and darkness that fills the minds and hearts of many self-proclaimed ‘saved’ people. The hate, anger, frustration and downright sadness that drips off every word that woman wrote can only be pitied. It appears she will live a closed, fearful and bigoted life all the way to the same finish line that we will all cross.

    Keep up the good work. Your posts are always looked out for. I have a 7 month old girl and like any daughter she’s the most beautiful bundle in the world. The looming specter of Catholicism is raising its head though as my wife feels compelled to have her baptized (primarily to keep her own mother happy). I have acquiesced this once as I tell myself my daughter will not remember the event and it won’t influence her.

    After that. My foot is going down. She’ll be raised a free thinker and encouraged to discover the amazing natural world around her rather than fear words from old books and obsess on death and the ‘possibilities’ thereafter.

    • @Marty Hi…Thanks for writing. This has actually come up quite a few times before. The pressure of parents–ugh. Tough. But I am 100% with you on baptizing. A baptism as an infant…eh….no biggie. Right now, it’s just pretty dresses, attention, food and family peace. No memories made for her. But I would, perhaps, put it out there now that after this, your precious daughter will have a different religious upbringing than you did. Without using the word nonbeliever, you could say that she’s going to be exposed to many worldviews.

    • “No human being on earth has the moral authority to tell any other what to believe.”…pir faqir The most important thing a parent can do is to teach their children to think for themselves. They are much less likely to get in to trouble if they don’t listen to their peers. Besides, “Human beings attain true adulthood only when they learn to think for themselves.”…pir faqir

    • @LanceT Interesting. This is the same guy, right? The same guy that writes both these blogs, only by different names. I like these things from “Jerome,: “Galileo had a bad attitude whereas the pope had a good one. Who remembers the pope’s name?”

      Funny: “Why does every interviewee in the whole wide world of television preface every answer to every vapid question with, “That’s a great question”? Instead of, for instance, “That’s a dumbass question. Better give it another shot.”

  105. LanceThruster

    @dam – No, I think I just linked the “Bad Attitudes” blog to highlight the bit from Prof. Wolff’s childhood memories, and then Prof. Wolff’s blog because the article then goes into the whole “God as pushed by the state” and “What evidence for God is there in the first place?” questions. I love reading stuff like that. It is a meeting of the minds across time and space.

    “One glance at a book and you hear the voice of another person, perhaps someone dead for 1,000 years. To read is to voyage through time.”
    ― Carl Sagan

    • @LanceT Yeah, Prof. Wolff is very interesting. He gives me hope in a way god can’t: he is proof that the brain and the self can continue to live strongly into the 80s. Did you read that last month marked his 60th anniversary of his graduation from Harvard. That’s impressive.

  106. LanceThruster

    Beautiful Sagan quote and source –

    “For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
    ― Carl Sagan

    • @LanceT Thanks for the link. Love that quote, and this one, too: “It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.” Carl Sagan

  107. LanceThruster

    A golden moldie for our beloved sister Britney who shares this remarkable cosmic journey with us –

    How on earth can religious people believe in so much arbitrary, clearly invented balderdash?….The acceptance of a creed, any creed, entitles the acceptor to membership in the sort of artificial extended family we call a congregation. It is a way to fight loneliness. Any time I see a person fleeing from reason and into religion, I think to myself, There goes a person who simply cannot stand being so goddamned lonely anymore. [Kurt Vonnegut Jr., quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief, Famous People with the Courage to Doubt, by James A. Haught, Prometheus Books, 1996]

    And an observation by Vonnegut that also applies here –

    Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying. [Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.]

    Found here –

    • @LanceT That’s a good one by Vonnegut. I see a lot of lonely people. Heck, aren’t we all lonely? We wake in the middle of the night, alone inside our brains. I guess we just deal with it better–or differently.

  108. LanceThruster

    To all who offer their good wishes for our redemption in a loving and respectful manner I offer this gem –

    “I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.”
    ― Carl Sagan, Billions and Billions

  109. LanceThruster

    In rereading that last quote, I noticed that the source site left off the part that I consider the meat of the quote, which is as follows –

    The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

    It’s an honor and pleasure to share this journey with you all.

  110. mtprairiegirl

    @dam……..I forgot to mention the other day that I did finally get around to watching the CNN link on the persecutions of the Christians. Enjoyed it very much, thanks for sharing! Don’t most stories sell better if a little more drama and blood. Prime example would be movies of today. The more gruesome and bloody the more attraction they draw. I personally can’t handle those kinds of movies.

    Going back to the article though that Christians today feel they are in constant persecution by non-believers. Huh??? More like the other way around! Here is something that was on my FB newsfeed today from the Progressive Secular Humanist Examer that I thought was appropriate for this same discussion. They showed a diagram of a pie divided into percentage of religions in the US with Christians dominating. Another picture of the US with 7 states colored in red that were states that banned Athiests from holding public office the remaining states in green were states Athiests holding office were merely frowned upon. The caption under both pictures stated: Christians, when you can show us states that legally prohibit Christians from holding public office, then perhaps we’ll consider your claim of persecution. Until then, please STFU!

    • @mtprairie I know! I can’t watch those violent or gruesome movies either…The last gruesome show I enjoyed was Zombieland, and that was because it was so freaking funny. LOVE Woody.

      As for the Christians feeling persecution, I find that funny, too. They are the “in” crowd. How can you feel anything other than powerful? And they’re so damned organized. I think we all will just have to bite the bullet and organized around some candidates (I know, it goes against our nature to congregate)… 🙂 As for the states that outlaw atheist from holding I had read that before, but I also read that it doesn’t mean much because the Constitution doesn’t allow states to pass those types of laws. Might be wrong on that. But, yes, sad that people have so much fear of atheists, still, after so many centuries of coming out.

  111. mtprairiegirl

    @dam……..glad you were able to finally watch Zeitgeist. I’m always curious to know what other non-believers opinion of it was. I had stumbled upon the video back in 2007 by accident much like your CNN iReport, which had absolutely nothing to do with what I was looking up at the time. I’m beginning to think there is an external force that is guiding me to these sites….lol 😉 I remember learning about a few of the gods mentioned in this video, but I had no knowledge of all the similarities the previous gods had in common with Jesus. I felt like shouting out “I’m in the dark here!” As I started reading more books I found it interesting that many of them mentioned the same similarities. I started thinking why don’t more people know of this? Is it a hoax, a conspiracy? Would it actually alter the religious mindset if they watched this video or would they be in denial? When I showed it to my husband who at the time was somewhat religious it definitely changed his thinking. We are finally on the same page on this one…..politics not so much, ugh! I also showed it to my son who was 12 or 13 at the time. It made him feel better about some of the questions he had with religion as this was the age he announced he didn’t want to go to confirmation anymore because he didn’t believe in what he was being taught. Church going and confirmation was expected of us in the first part of my marriage! Glad that parts over!

    Interesting about the god-kings of ancient history. So the rulers were actually considered to be gods as well? Can you imagine when the kings time of life was up how terrifying that must have been to know you were going to be killed and buried with the him? Definitely a story image you would never forget!

    Parts 2 & 3 of Zeitgeist are interesting as well. I can remember vividly on 9/11 watching the news that morning and when they showed the clip of G.Dubya after being told what had happened, my gut instinct strongly felt his reaction was a confirmation of what he already knew. Then years later to see conspiracy videos come out I thought, wow others thought it suspicious too.

    • @mtprairiegirl That’s really cool that Zeitgeist had the power, in one movie, to unravel your husband’s belief system. (Were you already on your way, too, when you started watching the movie?) It would be interesting, very interesting, to see what would happen if you played that movie for three groups of religious people: ages 15, 25 and 40. I bet a lot of the 15 and 25 year olds would be swayed as that is the age when religion plays less of a role (you know, you’re in full swing, focusing on finding a mate, running hard, making yourself). And then, by the time you are 40 and start feeling aches, when you are in the midst of a career and/or a family, your views are much more cemented. Hmmm….I wonder if certain religious groups would break first (I think the Catholics would be first to convert). Mormons, last.

      It was an interesting class. That’s where I learned that the Noah story was not really Noah’s and that many cultures had used it. Yes, my prof told us the kings were considered gods, and they did that as a way (of course) to control the people. I wish I could remember more of what she told me (my limitations frustrate me). I do remember I had a 300-pound football player who sat to my right (I always sat in the back of the class), and he, when he showed up, would try to copy off my test. My prof would act like she didn’t see it because he was a football player. That part I do remember! How sad!

      I’ll finish watching the movie, and we can discuss some more….Thanks for the recommendation!

  112. mtprairiegirl

    @LanceT……your “meat” of the quote you stated is exactly what I have thought for so long. Religious humans just “don’t get it”. This is heaven! Heaven is on Earth!!! We need to take care of it, not destroy it thinking of it as our temporary home and that heaven will be experienced in the afterlife!

    • @mtprairiegirl But, wait. Man has dominion over all this, so shouldn’t everything submit to us? We sound an awful lot like god. 😉 Seems to me, in the animal kingdom race, we just got here first!

  113. mtprairiegirl

    @pir faqir……..exactly! All our kids were taught to be independant thinkers. None of them are followers. They are not part of the popular crowds, but are good kind hearted individuals. Many of their teachers and parents of friends have commented to us on what good kids we have and I’m so proud I can say that!

    • Once when my wife’s half-brother and his wife were visiting us she asked me, “How did you do it?” and I replied, “Do what?” and her answer was “Raise such nice kids.” I have never met anyone who didn’t like our kids. Maybe because I didn’t brainwash them with my Mom’s religion which I didn’t believe in at age 12.

    • @pir faqir and mtprairiegirl That is reaffirming to hear. I have 2 teens. The jury is still out. I hear they are nice kids, but some days, I pull my eyelashes out. My dad always used to say you can’t tell if you did a good job until their off on their own. I’m crossing my fingers. It’s always good to hear that other parents have been through raising kids without god and have been successful!

  114. mtprairiegirl

    @LanceT…..OMG you are too funny! (That G is for gosh btw)…..A golden moldie for our beloved sister Britney who shares this remarkable cosmic journey with us –

    It’s so great seeing others on here that admire Carl Sagan as well as Colbert & Stewart. On my FB newfeed yesterday …..Egypt issues arrest warrant for Jon Stewart…… anything is going to become of that! ha!

  115. Oh, but Deborah, we congregate here. This is REAL church. We encourage, connect, hope, and (Do I dare type it?) love each other. We all contribute to this gathering.

    We have courageous Lisa, informative Mtprairiegirl, humorous LanceThruster, wise Pir Faqir, and an actual honest resident politician Senator Jason. Still, there are even more attendees who keep the joy going in this house of hope. Then we have you, a kind and understanding moderator who makes sure that the usuals are acknowledged, and the visitors are well received.

    As I look at all of these things with one year of de-conversion behind me, I have made a choice to take a baby step and use my actual first name, Charity. (Formerly CHope) After all, it’s time for me to start owning up to my new world and grow up a bit.

  116. mtprairiegirl

    @pir faqir………we’re on the right path in raising our kids….isn’t it a great feeling knowing despite popular pressure to be part of a relgious group that our kids are nice and well respected? Do your children get much pressure from peers to be part of their religious groups?

    • @mtprairiegirl Mine do here in Texas…They’ve been to friend’s churches. Anyone else’s kids pressured into going to church with friends?

      • I haven’t been in a church since I was 18 and I only went then because my Mom had written me asking me to go because I was about to be deployed to Korea as a Marine in 1954. I attended a Baptist (you can find baptism in Zarathrustra) church with my family as a child but I was never told I had to believe what I heard. I never told my children, now in their early 30’s, what to believe and neither has ever told me their friends pressured them on religion.

  117. LanceThruster

    @Charity –

    Here we go again.

    …funny like I’m a clown,[…]?


  118. LanceThruster

    Lancey DeVito: No, no, Deborah. She’s a big girl, she knows what she said. What did ya say? Funny how?


  119. LanceThruster

    Lancey Thrusterito: No, no, Deborah. She’s a big girl, she knows what she said. What did ya say? Funny how?


  120. Hey Lance, I just really enjoyed your crazy joke about the two Baptists at the bridge. Twenty years ago I graduated from a bible college in Deborah’s neck of the woods, and the guys there talked with each like that all the time! (Pre-trib, post-trib, tribulation, apologetics, and so on.) Many of them looked and acted like Dwight from “The Office”.
    Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go find religious symbols on some gold fish crackers.

  121. @Charity – Of course. I just like quoting Joe Pesci. Much of *my* humor is just borrowed [cough – stolen] from those much funnier than I am.

    I am always amazed by the factionalism of sectarians fighting over who is following the one true path.

  122. Interesting that this same person left the exact same comment on my blog and sent it to me in an email. Changed the pronouns and added a couple of personal touches but the rest of the mindless verbiage is identical.

  123. LanceThruster

    @BruceG – Great Blogroll.

  124. I don’t believe this post is from a female that goes by the name of Britney. He is an unfortunate product of this medium of expression (anonymity mentioned). He had his 15 minutes of fame (not the first or the last). Unfortunately he has abused those around him in his real life and I am sad for them! I hope those exposed to him can protect themselves. I hope he has chosen to never have children.
    Always with love dayna

  125. While I cannot be 100 percent sure I’d venture a guess thar no unbeliever would write such vile words to a believer. Faith and religion is what gives these wackos the “strength” and courage to attack others. They are doing it sincerely just like the Phelpses at WBC.

    I would once again remind that Americans (of whom ~80 percent are xians) are of an opinion that unbelievers are less trustworthy than rapists. It is thus easy to see why the hate comes so easily…

  126. I think this woman is mentally ill, possibly with Bipolar I, unmedicated. Most people, non-believers and believers, don’t have these kind of thoughts. Mental illness is real and this is a perfect example. I’ve known several people with Bipolar I and have witnessed their unmedicated highs. I’ve witnessed their highs and they typically showed this kind of psychotic thinking process. Posting her email is exploitation of her sickness.

  127. @dam…….I’m usually away from the computer on the weekends so I am just now posting to your question from a couple of days ago asking about if I was on my way to deconversion before viewing Zeitgiest. I’ve never been a real firm believer. Was born and raised in SLC, UT in a neighboorhood dominated by Mormons so had many friends of that faith. Jr High school is when I started hanging around those of little or no faith and hadn’t been to Church since then until I married and moved to MT. Before we got married there was really no mention of religious beliefs until we were to be married. We had a small wedding in a Lutheran Church in UT to satisfy my husbands side of the family. When we moved to the family farm in MT, that’s when the pressure to go to church started. In a small community where literally everyone knows everyone you attend church to “fit in”. I didn’t really mind it too much at first because our Pastor whom I’ve mention in a previous post wasn’t your typical Pastor. I confessed to him that I was a non-believer when my oldest son was a teenager. He was fine with it and we had some great discussions. He was the one that said “people should not take the Bible literally”. After our Pastor friend moved and our youngest kids were questioning religion and not wanting to attend anymore it just made sense to quit altogether, but my husband still wanted the kids to attend and understandably so as he did not want them to be outcasted amongst their peers. I stopped going then adventually he and the kids did too. He was still somewhat of a believer at that point, but when I showed him the Z movie his views definately changed. He is far more social than I am and mentioned that that is what he misses the most about not going to church anymore.

    • @mtprairiegirl That is interesting that Zeitgeist was the nail in the coffin…. I’m like you–totally fine by myself. Being an introvert, I actually need some alone time. When I go to parties or have people over, it’s emotionally draining. Do you know what I mean? So I don’t miss community either. Could your husband find some sort of humanist meet-up?

  128. @Charity……I agree…..this IS our little congregation. I think it is human nature for the most part to feel the need to be a part of a group and I am so glad to have discovered this one! For me it has literally been a lifesaver!

  129. @dam – Here ya go.

    Organizing atheists is a bit like herding cats. ~ Anon

  130. With a little food for thought re: the above –

    • @LanceT Very interesting post by Francois Tremblay. Thanks for sharing that. It’s interesting that atheists are disliked even more than scientologists.

  131. LanceThruster

    Try herding any cats. They generally march to their own drummers.

  132. mtprairiegirl

    @dam…….I know exactly what you mean……It is exhausting to entertain. I am perfectly comfortable to have a small group over once or twice a year and that’s about all the fix I need, but the spouse needs more social time and usually will find it with those that have the same interests as himself

  133. The most evil trick ever played upon humanity was to convince them that they must believe something or face eternal punishment.

    Doing this conditions a person to turn off their critical thinking so that the belief can never be brought Ito question. You cannot suppress the rational mind on one topic without it having profound effects on ones ability to perceive reality in general.

  134. Kudos to you for dealing with this in a tactful way. I couldn’t have. These things deeply, deeply trouble me.

  135. For some reason this one got sent to my spam filter – but I digress. Her comments reminded me a list of comments Richard Dawkins received from people professing to be Christian but all that came to my mind was fanatic. Some of comment he had included threats of cutting him open. What gets lost or is just blatantly ignored by the militant types (believer and non alike) is that like it or not – neither group is going to go away anytime soon. You beat your drum, I’ll beat mine and you know what – sometimes we can still make great music together regardless.

    That’s the great idea about America gang – we should have open and frank conversation and disagree and we can do it on line, in person, through social media etc and yet we should be able to do so without the fear of being dragged out from our beds one night because we went against some perceived establishment.

    The post I read dripped in outright hatred toward another human being, a human being whom she has never met and yet wants to see destroyed over something like this. Sad to think that maybe you guys could have met once and actually got along.

    I live just north of Fort Worth in Saginaw and I have friends and family that I love who believe and others who don’t and you know what – it doesn’t f**king matter. If you can’t let someone believe one way while you believe another without going homicidal on them then that is not love. That is something this entire planet can easily do without. Might be a whole lot fuss and bother if we would just live and let live heh?

    Keep up the postings and if you ever decide to have a little DFW mixer sometime then let us know. I think many of us would enjoy the opportunity to pop open a few bottles of the wine and toast everything from reason and the FSM to freedom of choice or just letting the world be the world. Cheers.

    • @AL Love what you said here: “You beat your drum, I’ll beat mine and you know what – sometimes we can still make great music together regardless.”

      I agree–we got enough issues (hunger, illness, accidents, weather catastrophes) without throwing in hatred towards each other. Yes, I think we (the regulars here) all subscribe to the Golden Rule of live and let live.

      That’s a great idea about a DFW mixer. I’ve met several here who are from the area. I think sometime around the first half of May…Let me see what I can do….

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